Soleil: [00:00:00] Welcome to another episode of Sweat Strategy and Success. This is the go to resource for entrepreneurs in the health and wellness industry to become the best versions of themselves, both personally and professionally.

Soleil: I'm Soleil Rain, a marketer and passionate storyteller, and my mission is to share the untapped stories of the brilliant minds shaping health and wellness.

Soleil: Here you'll discover inspiring stories and actionable strategies for growing your business and cultivating a more healthier and fulfilling lifestyle.

Soleil: I wanted to change the layout of these episodes just a little bit with an inspiring message to kickstart your week. I saw this message from TikTok, and it's an interview with Denzel Washington for the new movie, Gladiator 2, that's coming out with an interviewer. And her name is Zainab Jiwa.

[00:01:00] 

Soleil: I know this, this message from Denzel Washington when I saw it on TikTok, it really kicked my ass into gear. And so I hope it kicks your ass into gear this week, too.

Soleil: Especially when you start working on your copywriting for your health and wellness business, which is the topic of our conversation today.

Soleil: If you feel lost between, um, The difference of content writing or copywriting Or you keep using ChatGPT to create your copywriting without seeing a whole lot of conversions or it helping you a lot Or maybe you're even stuck at the beginning and you don't know where to start with your value proposition I highly recommend this episode for you

Soleil: in this episode I spoke with Linda Malone.

Soleil: Linda is an award winning content writer and copywriter.

Soleil: For over 20 years, Linda has worked in the [00:02:00] health and wellness industry, whether that be as a personal trainer or behind a desk writing out copy for tons of businesses.

Soleil: She is an expert when it comes to copywriting and it was such a pleasure talking with her as my journey also began in copywriting and I feel like there's always more to learn too because the difference between content writing and copywriting, while it doesn't seem very big, is actually very big and learning how to copyright for any business and as a marketer especially, it's very important and so it was super special being able to speak with her today about that The in depth insights on how both you and I can start utilizing copy in the right way to help convert customers and create loyal long term customers who share the values of your business and

Soleil: and want what your business is offering. Linda is going to provide some incredible advice on establishing brand voice.

Soleil: Reaching target audiences and making a meaningful impact.

Soleil: This episode is a must [00:03:00] listen for anybody looking to elevate their business through the right words.

Soleil: Remember, if you like this episode, please make sure to like, save, or subscribe on your favorite podcast platforms, and let's get started.

Soleil: Hi, Linda. Thank you so much for joining me today. How are you doing?

Linda Melone: Good. How are you, Soleil? Thank you so much for inviting me.

Soleil: Yeah, of course. I'm so excited for our conversation today. And I think there's a lot of people out there who can take away from this conversation that we're going to have today, especially people who work in small businesses or work in marketing themselves for the businesses that they do run. And so I'm super excited for this conversation today.

Soleil: Let's start off with a little bit of what you do, Linda. What, what's your career right now? What are you working on?

Linda Melone: Well, I'm a conversion copywriter people say, Oh, that's sort of a bogus term because copywriter is a copywriter, but there are different specialties within it. So conversion copywriter, um, I studied with a woman who coined that phrase, [00:04:00] Joanna Weeb. She has a whole agency and she has a certification at which I took.

Linda Melone: Um, so I basically focus on the marketing end of. Like a business as far as writing for a company and the, the conversion emphasis means that I take into account like stages of decision making. Where is the person when they come to the page or is the email going? Like, I'm, I'm. Starting with the end in mind, more than just writing out copy. Um, 

Linda Melone: there's a lot to it that people don't realize, but I've been a copywriter for five years before that about 15 years, I was a content writer for magazines. So I did a lot of content and there that's when I found out the big difference between the two. But it's, um, it's really to help businesses their messaging, their authentic messaging, and to get it across in a way that they track their target audience. audience in a nutshell. [00:05:00] That's

Soleil: that's great. I know there's a Like you said, there's some people who just don't really understand copywriting and conversion copywriting and the impact that it can have on a business. I, I think I've told you this before. I started my work in marketing as a copywriter and it actually, for me personally, completely changed the game of how I engage in marketing.

Soleil: And how I help businesses with their marketing. So I'm just a little bit curious as somebody who works on this full time and is somebody who comes in to make a difference. 

Soleil: How does the work that you do make a difference for businesses?

Linda Melone: I think the biggest thing and the most important part of what I do is to help businesses find their value proposition. What separates them from everyone else.  

Linda Melone: For instance, I'm in the health and fitness business. That's a saturated market. so many people saying the same things. And this goes pretty much across the board.

Linda Melone: When you look at [00:06:00] any big niche, there's a lot of people, you go on websites and the website copy is all the same, you know, and it all, it's like you, if you could take your competitors copy and put it on your website, that's how, you know, you need to say something different. So the whole, the most important thing I do, I feel is to help companies really find their, their voice and how they can stand out among the competition.

Soleil: Mm. And do you find that often that when you start working with a company that they often have similar language to other companies that are in their similar market?

Linda Melone: All the time, especially with AI, because a lot of people think, Oh, I'm just going to plug this into chat and it'll come up with something. And, you know, forgetting that chat GPT is pulling from the internet. So anything that's been said is it can only pull from what's already been said. It doesn't originate.

Linda Melone: Doesn't create new content or copy. yeah, a lot of times it's the same or. Or it's [00:07:00] copy that doesn't say anything, it's very vague, or they use a lot of what's called marketing speak, you know, words like up level and, you know, best in class and things that don't really mean anything. Cause everyone says that.

Linda Melone: What does it mean that you're Best in class, you know, so where I help is to define what is that for you? Like what, let's not use that phrase. Let's think of, you know, something more specific. And that's where a lot of copy I find is lacking.

Soleil: Can you provide a good example of maybe someone you've worked with recently where you took them from having maybe generic marketing lingo to figuring out who they are, what they're doing, Uh, what their brand is, what their language is, and then converting that copy so it was better for them and ultimately better for their business.

Linda Melone: Yeah, absolutely. There was one company I worked for, I worked [00:08:00] with they're a hospitality business and it's family run and their website. It was very tech oriented, like the header of the homepage was somebody on their phone. You didn't even see the person, just a hand and a phone stock photo. And so when I talked to them and I worked with their whole design team, it wasn't just me working on this.

Linda Melone: The whole website got a revamp. And when we were talking and I said, well, tell me about this family business. They said, well, it, you know, It's family business. And we, you know, their specialty was really being warm and welcoming to their clientele. And again, it's a hospitality business. They, they provided tech for, like hotels and, you know, big hotels.

Linda Melone: So said, well, where is the warmth in this? There's nothing in it. That's. It's family run. It looks like every other tech business. Of course, I didn't put it in those exact words, but pretty much that's what it said. I said, so we ended up, and I say, wait, it was me and the designer. Cause it was a [00:09:00] lot of it was, you know, back and forth, but the copy now reads, um, you know, we take care of your tech. So you can take care of your guests and the copy. The image on the front homepage has the hotel person at the desk greeting the customer and the customer. They're smiling and it's friendly. It's warm. The colors are warm as brown, yellow, like a really warm kind of feeling change with the design and copy change, um, increased conversions by 44%.

Linda Melone: For that company, and they were able to extract how I said, how can you pull out what the copy alone did? And they were able to say it was 11 percent just from the copy alone of leads, like, you know, people coming in and converting. So that's the impact, you know, and in fact, on my website, I have a slider, which shows the before and after of this particular site, because it was just bland.

Linda Melone: It was, you know, everybody says the same thing. Stop photo. we have something different. I [00:10:00] really pulled out the family values that this company had, which was their differentiator is

Soleil: Hmm. That's great. Wow. That's a really big jump from before to after just by changing two things, the conversion and the images. If you could go back and tell them where they should start with something like this, what would you tell them? Because I feel like maybe there's. Yeah. A lot of people out there who don't even know where to start, right?

Soleil: Like I'm, I'm just writing, I don't really know what copywriting is. I'm just going to go to chat or I have this small family run business that we want a website for, but we don't really know much about marketing or copywriting. Where would you tell them to start?

Linda Melone: I think I would say to look at what your competitors are doing and people will say, well, I don't have a competitor, especially if it's a startup. And they'll say, you know, we're in a class by ourselves, which is rarely the actual case. if that is the case, then go to. say, for example, I've worked with tech companies where their competitor was literally [00:11:00] pen and paper.

Linda Melone: Like people were doing things on paper that now was like, for example, was an app company I worked for. And they could take your paper forms and make them into An app. So even if it's something like that, like, who are you up against really study? What, what is their messaging and what are they saying their solution is? And even go on sites like Reddit, like people who just talk unfiltered, is it that they're saying? What are they complaining about? And you want to find almost like the Venn diagram of what they're getting, you know, currently what they're not getting in that gap or where the two circles meet would be That's your message.

Linda Melone: That's what you or you want to come in. I think that's the number one thing. It's where I usually start With clients and it's kind of fun in a way because you really can dig into you know, what happening? What are they missing? Um, but that's that's a huge To look at it like [00:12:00] that.

Soleil: Yeah. And what's so great about marketing and copywriting is I think it's something. That you can learn, right? If you feel like you're somebody who is a little bit confused and they don't know where to start, like listening to podcasts like this, listening to your own personal podcast about how to start engaging and learning about marketing, I think can be really helpful.

Soleil: And even yourself, you've said that you started off as a content writer and even did some stuff before that and then became a copywriter. Can you tell me a little bit more about your journey and like, um, hopefully to get. People inspired about, it doesn't, you don't have to be already skilled in, in copywriting.

Soleil: It's something that you learn. Where did you start? Can you tell me more about your story?

Linda Melone: I started, um, I've always been a writer, even as a kid. I used to write stories. Like I just loved writing. It was, just something that's kind of innate with me. So that may be different than some people, but I, um, I'm older than I look. So I've been [00:13:00] through a lot of different,

Soleil: Love that for you.

Linda Melone: I was a serial entrepreneur. So I was actually in, I have a degree in nutrition of all things. And then I developed an interest in fitness. And what happened is when I was a trainer and I still had this bug that I wanted to write, I didn't know what to do with that. Um, like desire. And then 1 day I had, um, there was a magazine.

Linda Melone: I used to live in Orange County, California, and there was an OC Metro was a publication. It's not around anymore. And it was free and it would be thrown on our driveway every week. And I've read it and about business in Orange County. And that a column a fitness column. And I thought to myself, you know, I'm training people in their homes.

Linda Melone: Why don't I pitch them idea of how to set up your home gym? Cause people are always asking me how much space do I need for a treadmill? What kind of weights do I need to buy? So I pitched the editor an idea, you know, to do, and he says, sure, go ahead. So he ends up. loving this piece, me, which I still remember like floored me.

Linda Melone: I didn't [00:14:00] expect this reaction. He's like, this is so good. Do you want to keep writing for us? Long story short, I ended up writing so much for this publication I wrote columns for them. I was doing lead stories and sometimes half the magazine was all written by me. And I, uh, At some point I said, you know, I need to branch out to national.

Linda Melone: So national publications would be like, you know, the self likes self magazine, which I don't think that's around anymore. Um, shape magazine. Cause I was gearing towards fitness and health at a column in oxygen, which is a woman's fitness magazine. pretty much all of them. I've been in, in time magazine.

Linda Melone: I was health MSN. I had a regular gig with them every. Month, like four slideshows a month I was doing for them. then what happened is the bottom kind of fell out everybody. This was in 20, like around 2013, 2014, everything print publications were folding up, literally like just my MSN editor. I was doing so much work for [00:15:00] them.

Linda Melone: I could have. Just lived on what they were paying me because I had so much work. It was working with two different editors overnight. It literally went away. So after I overcame that thing, like realizing, okay, I need to take a step back. What am I going to do? And I'd always wanted to start an online fitness course. So I did that. Um, It was just, I made a lot of mistakes doing it. Um, I was conducting it like a, like a hobby. You know, I didn't know the first thing about business. I just it as, as I have a photographer friend of mine. And we were always saying, I'm an artiste. I don't want to know about numbers. I don't want to get, but you have to know, you have to know some kind of business. I did that for five years. Just couldn't make it work the way I wanted it to. And so I decided to go back to writing and didn't want to do content anymore because basically all the publications I was writing for were dried up. There were no longer, you know, and so I, um, I [00:16:00] went back to it briefly and then the few magazines that were left, they closed shop and I said, okay, let me try this copywriting thing. Went to a fitness conference, ran into the marketing people from Bowflex and I was introduced by someone who knew them and. I started talking to the marketing people and they're like, you know, we could use a copywriter to, to write like our catalogs. And we had, we both had the same sense of humor or joking around.

Linda Melone: And, and he said, it's his exact words were it's nice to meet a writer. Who's not completely crazy. He said, we meet a lot of writers who are a little bit out of their minds. I don't know what he meant by that, but he ends up hiring me. And, um, that's how I started doing copywriting. But even then I didn't know what I was doing until I started taking some courses So that's the whole journey from start to finish where I am now is just really focusing on health and wellness and fitness business with my copywriting.

Soleil: Yeah. Would you say it was a learn by doing[00:17:00] 

Linda Melone: Yeah. I

Soleil: for you?

Linda Melone: do that. Yeah. I think a lot of times, you know, these things you can't, don't know. It's like, even when I started personal training, you know, I had, uh, I was, um, certified four different national certifications I had and the, before I even got. Like to work with an actual person. There's a huge difference with whatever you're doing with having the actual hands on experience than to just read about it or get certified in it. And when I look back on where I started, even with copywriting, I didn't know what I was doing. You know, it just took working with people, finding, you know, making mistakes. 

Linda Melone: There's no way around it. You have to make mistakes in order to find, you know, what's, what's working, what's not working. So yeah, it takes a while too. There's no real shortcut,

Soleil: Yeah, yeah, that was definitely my experience, too, was learning by copywriting, because copywriting can be so specific to a business [00:18:00] that especially just working for one business and doing copywriting for them, it can be It's okay. Is this working? Is this working? No, this didn't work. Okay. Let's try it.

Soleil: Like just change this word a little bit, you know, and then like copywriting especially was a learn by doing experience for me. And for entrepreneurs, which is a large portion of the people who listen to this podcast, I know learn by doing is something that's big for them too. So I do want to go back for a second and talk about the challenges that we face.

Soleil: That you had for your fitness course and how those challenges then influenced what, you know, and the lessons that you've learned to utilize today.

Linda Melone: I think one of the biggest mistakes I made with my fitness course was not understanding my audience well enough. For instance, I was selling an expensive coaching course, but yet my audience was women over 50. so it wasn't just women over 50 is women. Like I would attract, I [00:19:00] had, at one point I had 13, 000 people on my list, which was, you know, considerable, a lot of them were on fixed incomes. A lot of them, like a 2, 000 coaching program is not the product to sell to this group. And I, that's why I couldn't make it work. I was really trying. I mean, I had some people, I mean, it did work for some, but they were the business owners. There are people who were still working. Um, it was a mismatch. That I think was my biggest mistake. 

Linda Melone: Um, and the second one was not having like the business sense. And it's not that you have to go to business school, but you really want to think through like who you're hiring. For instance, I would just hire the first person on Upwork that I found. Now I know better. I go through, there's a vetting process,

Linda Melone: but here's something you'll crack up about because a lot of people find this interesting. I actually use chat GPT to find my virtual assistant.

Soleil: Wow. Okay.

Linda Melone: that. [00:20:00] I took, um, I put an ad in Upwork, which I also created through chat. I said to chat, this is, cause I use chat a lot. I don't use it for writing, but I use it for ideas, brainstorming, that kind of stuff. So I went on there and I said, okay, this is what I'm looking for.

Linda Melone: Can you create a job description I can put on Upwork? Cause I just, you know, I hate writing those things. Like, I don't know. I just never know what exactly to put. So I, I got it. I tweaked it. I didn't just cut and paste it, but I said, okay, this looks good. So I interviewed four people and I recorded their interviews, took the transcripts, put it back into chat GPT with that job description. which person is best qualified? it evaluated everyone's interview. And you know how it does it in like a split second, right? It's like coming through it says, um, you know, this person here's the pros and cons with this person, this person, this, and this one is the only one fits all your criteria. And it was the most expensive person and I

Soleil: Of course. Right.

Linda Melone: trying to get away from it. And I [00:21:00] kind of argued with chat, you know, and I was like, well, what about so and so? And they said, this is the only person that is meeting all of your, and they pointed out exactly what it was. And she's been with me for almost a year. like, that's something that I would do now that back then, and we didn't have chat back then, but there would have been other ways for me to vet people better than I did. Cause I was hiring people that were not ripping me off, but just not doing the job. We're not really qualified. We're trying to get away with, you know, the littlest thing, but, um, I wanted someone who could take the ball and run with it. Cause I'm not a micromanager. So I said, I want someone who's creative, who can think on their feet, who can, who knows, know, how to like take this and be proactive with, okay, I think this is what we need to do. And that's exactly what this person does. So, so

Soleil: That's great. Yeah, that's great. I, you know, I have this conversation with. Entrepreneurs a lot, the difficulties of hiring [00:22:00] because it is, I hear a lot, you know, I was paying this person, but they were only doing half the job, you know, like for me, when I think about hiring, it doesn't have to be someone who's obsessed with what you're doing because nobody's going to be as obsessed with your business as you are, right?

Soleil: And so, you know, It's it seems like such a difficult thing and it hasn't been something that I have had to do yet. Hopefully, maybe one day in my life, I'll get to start hiring people. But in the meantime, I love to talk to people like you, like what their hiring practices are like. So, when you're hiring, what Besides taking a ball and running with it, what things did you provide to chat?

Soleil: Dbt? Like, this is what I want this person to have in order to provide the necessary tools for me to also succeed in my business and also help them succeed.

Linda Melone: The biggest thing that I emphasized to chat was that I wanted them to be able to be proactive and to write, um, like, here's an example. Okay. So the person I hired, [00:23:00] I didn't ask her to do this and she just did it. I'm, I post, I have my own podcasts and I post snippets on YouTube. I wasn't getting a lot of traction on it. She said to me, um, Thursday afternoons, which is such a random time is when YouTube shorts seem to take off. Well, she took me from like 40 views per episode to over a thousand, like just by doing, I didn't ask her to do that and even know, you know what she, like, so I said, I want somebody who's a, You know, a go getter who really thinks on their feet. I don't remember exactly how I worded the whole thing. Um, but that was really important. I wanted them to be able to, um, organize my work. Like if I have a client, I mean, her, I hired her mainly to take care of my podcast episodes. So to be able to distribute it across social media just, I don't have to keep up with, you know, what they're doing.

Linda Melone: [00:24:00] So will send her. The whole podcast that I have, and then she will put it up on, you know, Opus and break it up into different clips and then put it in a folder for me to approve. And then, okay. Then she's on a way, okay. Facebook, Instagram. So I don't have to worry about it. that's really what my intent was to hire her was to do to distribute the content. So that was my focus.

Soleil: Yeah, I see. So somebody who could kind of take a piece of your load off, but somebody you wouldn't have to worry about, right. To continue to do a good job for you. Um, and although she was the most expensive person, it sounds like she's doing a good job.

Linda Melone: Yeah. And you know, what's funny is when I talked to her, I remember the first time, um, she said to me, she goes, this is kind of sideline, but she goes, just want you to know that I really want to work with a copywriter. And even though it was just one thing she said, it's like that kind of over, like she didn't just see me as [00:25:00] like just somebody who needs help, but she really wanted to work with me because I was a copywriter and that stuck with me.

Linda Melone: It was just a little thing, but I thought, okay, you know, there's something to think about too.

Soleil: Yeah, yeah, that's really sweet. You know, it was, it was more for her than just a job.

Linda Melone: Right, right. That's exactly it.

Soleil: Well, Linda, you have to tell me, at this moment in your life, what are you trying to accomplish?

Linda Melone: For me. It's establishing myself as the authority in the health and fitness copywriting. Like I want to be the go to person for health and fitness. Um, brands. cause the thing is, I know, I know this field and this niche so thoroughly, not just from the copywriting end, but I was a trainer for a hundred years.

Linda Melone: You know, I know what it's like to be on both sides. I've had the course. So for me, it's, it's [00:26:00] really getting myself out there as the authority in this. Yeah. Like, if you think about. You know, Oh, when somebody refers, like if you ask somebody to refer you, or you need a referral and you say, Oh, this is the person I always use, you know, and I want to be like that person.

Linda Melone: So that's sort of my goal. It's kind of abstract, but I've, love what I do. So I just want to work with people who are really a fit for me can really value what I do, especially with chat and all the AI going on. You know, it's harder to differentiate yourself. So that's how I would do it.

Soleil: Yeah, a hundred percent. And, you know, we've, we've brought up ChatGPT a few times in this episode so far. As a copywriter, how Frustrating. Is it that people are going to ChatGPT instead of finding copywriters or maybe frustrating is not the right word. How are you feeling? What does it, how do you feel as a copywriter with people using ChatGPT nowadays?

Linda Melone: I think the people [00:27:00] who value and really know good copywriting know that chat GPT is not going to get them the copy that they need. I think the people who, for one, think that they can do it themselves, because everyone thinks they're a copywriter, I can write that. Um, I thought that before I became a copywriter.

Linda Melone: So I'm not saying it's, you know, it's such a horrible thing. I mean, I, I think we see it as a soft skill. I think when You know, people are, they feel it's good enough. They're going to, at some point see that their copy is lacking or that it sounds the same as everyone else. But some, you know what, some people just don't care. I've seen that too, where it's like, I'm just going to put this up on site. I've seen so many awful websites where the copy is just, clearly written by chat. And sometimes, especially if it's a client I'm starting to work with, I'll cut and paste it. You can these chat analyzes. It can tell you how much of it is. Actually AI, and usually it's a hundred percent. Um, there's, they're never going to differentiate [00:28:00] themselves. So, you know, I don't, I don't see it as a real threat to real copywriters or to people who value copywriting. I think if you're somebody who just doesn't care or thinks it's good enough, well, probably never going to hire me anyway, so that's fine.

Linda Melone: I

Soleil: Yeah. That makes sense. Yeah. And I think The language that I've heard around at least artificial intelligence recently is it's made to be a tool that's supposed to support you and help you, right? It's not supposed to give you what you're looking for exactly. It's supposed to get you to the place that you're going.

Soleil: And so I'm wondering if like, Maybe there's a middle ground, right? 

Soleil: For somebody, especially for small businesses who can't hire people like you, like maybe there's, what would you say to them? How can they find a middle ground between utilizing tools like chat, dbt or other AI services, and then also getting good copywriting and maybe even getting advice from people from like you, or maybe from the internet.

Soleil: I'm not sure. What's that middle ground you think for people who are in [00:29:00] smaller businesses?

Linda Melone: think use it for brainstorming. Like if you have, it's like, say you're writing a blog because I use it for blogs, um, just to brainstorm ideas, get your ideas from it and it'll, it's great, it gives you so much information that you don't need. I would look at it like, say it's giving you bullet points, them. Like sound like you, so read if, read it out loud if you have to and say, would I say this actually? Okay, no. Or would your client say that? It depends on who you're writing for. Of course. So I do is I will take the points that chat gives me for like say I am researching something. And these are the things I'll say, what are the most important things I need to write in this blog post for this client? These are the points you need to make. Um, I will then ask it, what is, what's the source for any of this? Statistics, it can give you the source most of the time, then follow those sources, make sure that it's, it's accurate. And then I would start it with, [00:30:00] you want it to be conversational. That's what sets you apart from AI. 

Linda Melone: I will just give you a whole bunch of facts. Let's start with a story. Like, um, for instance, I just wrote. I, um, a newsletter to my list about the time I landed a huge client with a cold pitch email. So I plugged it in there. I forget what it brought back, but I started, I ignored most of the a bit at the beginning.

Linda Melone: And I just put my own story in it. Like, you know, this is how I did it. This is what, um, know, I studied the, the company. I saw they had a gap in their messaging. I pitched the president. This is why it worked. This is why it didn't work one. I didn't use a lot for chat GPT, but I would have used it for stats. Like how many, you know, how many cold emails actually land what's a success rate and maybe woven that in. I didn't in this particular thing. Cause it's a short. little email. Um, but take what it gives you and then humanize it. Break up the sentences. [00:31:00] It always like gives you so many wrong sentences. back and edit that. Chop up the sentences. Okay. This is one point. So let's put a period here. Start the next one. the sentence length. Um, that's something it doesn't do at all. And that makes a huge difference in how the readability of it. And just ask yourself, are these words I would use, are these words that, you know, can I use a better word than, you know, best in class, like any of the marketing speak, use your own language. And it's really not that hard. It can, it can give you a great headstart and it's really good sometimes with titles. I use this one site. I should get a commission because I refer them so much. There's a, um, actually for LinkedIn posts only redact AI, and it can take your old posts that it'll get into your LinkedIn.

Linda Melone: Like you give it your LinkedIn, um, uh, name and it will pull up all your most successful LinkedIn posts and you can ask it to rewrite it in your voice. [00:32:00] the only AI that I use that I have to say is really good at capturing like your voice. I've used it a number of times and it's, you have to pay for it, but you know, I don't use it with every post, but when I'm in a rush, I'm like, all right, let me just repurpose something. And it'll give you three different versions of it you can pick and choose. So yeah, it's just working with it, make adding your own converse, you know, your own words to it, ask yourself, you know, would you say this, would your clients say this, you know, how could

Linda Melone: a story or something even.

Soleil: Yeah. I want to go back to something that you said, and I want to make that differentiation between writing copy for your client versus writing copy for yourself. What's, what's the difference there?

Linda Melone: The voice, you know, when I write my email to my list, I'm kind of, say snarky, but I have a good sense of humor and I try to weave that in. if it's my client, I have to make sure that that, that copy sounds like them. So that's when [00:33:00] you really, cause they say that it's the second biggest fear clients have about hiring a copywriter is that they're going to get the voice wrong.

Linda Melone: First biggest fear is that they're going to cost too much. So, so you have to, and I've had this with clients. And when I first started doing copy, I wasn't that good at it. But now I know that I really dig into what you want your voice to sound like. Do you want it to be authoritative? Do you want it to be friendly? Do you want it to be warm? Um, or do you want it to be kind of flippant? It, you know, it's a big difference between Dollar Shave Club language and Apple. For instance. So if you're writing an email for your client, you need to make sure that it sounds like it's coming from the person. Like I have a client I write emails for all the time.

Linda Melone: In fact, I'm doing one today it's manufacturer and it's a very, um, kind of a dry business, but I know. You know, the CEO and I know how he would word things. And so I'll go through and ask myself, would he say this then, you know, kind of adjust it [00:34:00] in his voice. So that's the difference. 

Linda Melone: Like you can't just write how you always write for everyone.

Linda Melone: Just wouldn't work.

Soleil: Yeah, when people get over that first and that second fear. And ultimately end up coming to you. What do you find to be like the number one issue that they're facing, especially in health and wellness businesses?

Linda Melone: I think it goes back to the value proposition. What, what makes them different because there's so many people doing the same thing that finding where they can separate themselves and how they can make themselves stand out is really important. And it isn't just that you need. I mean, it's great. If you can find something you do different than everyone else and your competitors, but it could just be something no one's talking about.

Linda Melone: It doesn't have to be different. But if no one's talking about it. Yeah. different and people don't know about, Oh, they do this. You know, it's, um, and that's, it's not always easy to find, but that's usually the number one thing.

Soleil: And how would someone, how would [00:35:00] someone go about finding their value proposition?

Linda Melone: Part of it is what I said earlier about, you know, finding what your competition is doing then really sitting down. I mean, I have like 90 minute calls with clients to just brainstorm all the things that we talked about. A lot of it, the value prop, the voice, the, um, What is your main goal for your messaging? Um, how do you see yourself? How do you want your customer or client to see you? Do you want to be the authority? Do you want to, like, there's just so many questions there. You know, what, what transformation do you want your client to experience by working with you? What are they going to get out of it? they going to earn? Like when I, a lot of times, if I can, and most of the time I can, I will talk to my clients, customers, either past or current, And I'll ask them, was it like before you used. You my client services and what is your life like now [00:36:00] what changed for you? That's really the best thing ask the people that work with you now.

Linda Melone: Why did you even choose me? Why did you go with me though? Like for me There's millions of copywriters. Why would you choose me, you know, and it's it's because of my charming personality and as well as I really didn't know the fitness business. I don't know but I mean there is something to be said for you know You Just getting to know people a little bit. but it's, yeah, it's really, it's a process, but you want it to, I mean,

Linda Melone: there's like five criteria for a value proposition. It should be succinct. So simple to. To say, um, preferably one sentence. It could be kind of a long sentence, but you want to get all of it in there. It should be memorable. Something people go, Oh, wow, that's interesting. should be clear. Um, a lot of times people will try to get everything in at once. Like you see headlines, we can [00:37:00] save you money. We can save you time. We could, you know, pick one at, you can, you can include the other things in somewhere else, but your headline or your value prop should include one thing that you can do. succinct. Um, clear, desirable, something that they want. You know, this is something that's, I've always wanted, and it sounds exactly like what it is. Um, Is that all five? I think that's all of them. But really you just want it to be clear, memorable, easy to, to, to say, that it makes really one promise that no one else does. It's not easy.

Soleil: Yeah. That's so interesting. You said pick one point. I've never actually heard that before, you know, like to, like, I can save you money. I can do you this. I can do this. I could do all these things. Why, why pick one? You think like, why is that? And it's so important to just pick one thing and decide. stick with it.

Linda Melone: because it's confusing when you promise everything. It's like, can you really do all that? [00:38:00] Um, and it doesn't mean that you can't talk about the other things too, but if you, your headline is that you can do all these things, it seems like I would have doubts when I see something like that. Like, can you really do this?

Linda Melone: Like what there's something in. conversion copywriting called the one, um, the one promise that you make it is not easy to find, but that's really what you want to dig into. What's the one promise you can say like, okay, so use an example I talked about before with that, that company, the hospitality company, we take care of your tech so you can take care of your customers. the promise. You don't have to worry about the tech. You don't have to, you know, we'll take care of that. You just deal with, you know, the hospitality end of, of the, of the whole process. And so they don't have to worry about that. if you said we can take [00:39:00] care of your tech, we can cut back on your time.

Linda Melone: We can save you money. That's all going to get diluted that the main point, but then later on, you know, in the copy, you can add that. I mean, if there's something that does save them money, I mean, sure, but it, For that one value proposition, you want to have it be what they're going to get. Is that

Soleil: Yeah. No, 100 percent does because I think a lot of people feel like the more that they can offer than the more people that they can get to come to their business, right? When really in marketing, it's completely different when you think about the idea of target audiences, right? Especially for people who are new to business.

Soleil: They're like, I want everybody. Like, why doesn't everybody just come to my business? We can service everybody. But when you can narrow down who exactly you're trying to serve, what exactly their pain point is and how you can help and solve that pain point, then that's what marketing is while you may want to serve everybody, [00:40:00] you can only really in your business, make, Your perfect target audience happy and then you can expand from there a little bit, right?

Soleil: But it's all about finding more of like a specific niche way of talking to your audience

Linda Melone: yeah. And people that like, I hesitated about really focusing on the health and fitness business. And then I had a couple of coaches that said, you know, this is where you are different from all the other copywriters though, because you know that business so thoroughly you've been in it for so long and. It's funny because recently I I'm working with an accounting client and it's an accounting software and so they came to me as a referral and they talking about ways to niche down into something like underneath accounting that's even more like just for a particular population and they were hesitant and they're like what about you know people who [00:41:00] you know are not going to hire us because we're not you know they're not in that area. that category. And I said, I'm a health and fitness copywriter. You guys came to me and they both started laughing because accounting business, people will find you anyway, you know, but if you have that specialty and you become that person, I'll use the example too, of when I was in personal training, I had a client who had a couple of shoulder surgeries and she went to a specific doctor, a female doctor in New York city who only worked on women's shoulders. I mean, can you get more specific than that? And she was booked out. I mean, she had a waiting list and, but she was the person, you know, if you're a woman and you have a shoulder injury, well, you have to go to Dr. So and so, you know, this is, that's what she does. That's the kind of specificity that you want to have in your, business,

Soleil: Yeah, absolutely I know we talked about this a little bit already, but 

Soleil: If I was somebody [00:42:00] who was starting my health and wellness business and I wanted to start converting more and I wanted to start getting involved in copywriting that would ultimately help my business, where would you tell me to start?

Linda Melone: besides the value proposition and finding what makes you different. I would say that the easiest way to try out copywriting is with emails because it's a quick turnaround, a quick response. You can measure the success of it How many opens do you have? How many people clicked on what you have in there you know, versus a landing page or a homepage or something that could take six months before you really can measure. It's impact. 

Linda Melone: So emails are they're quick to do. You have to have a list. Of course, um, you could even try it out on social media because that's another way that would be, you know, people don't consider it copywriting, but it sort of is. I mean, if you think about it, you have to get a point across pretty quickly. [00:43:00] Um, of course, you don't want to make it sound like an ad all the time, but you could see what people respond to. You know, like for instance, on YouTube, I had one, I don't get a ton of views on my YouTube channel, but I had one that took off like a thousand times more than every other one. And it was how to use your content writing skills to create killer copy is a short video. It was done horribly. It was on the first ones I did. But yet it went through the roof. And so I don't, I would look at that and I've made emails from it. So look at what was working and try to figure out why. I've since found out actually very recently people go to YouTube for the basics. So that was a very basic. information, informational video. you know, choose something that has a, uh, an easy way for you to measure. And I, I would suggest working with a copywriting coach. I mean, there's plenty of them out there, you know, just do your [00:44:00] research and find somebody. Cause that's what really helped me is to work one on one and have like a little group.

Linda Melone: Calls and have your work evaluated. I worked with one copywriting coach she would have this thing where she was really tough on us. And she said, okay, every Friday you submit your work and you tell her on a scale of one to 10, how hard you want, she wanted her to be on your work. And if you were choosing anything less than 10, she'd have her assistant come on.

Linda Melone: Because she would just,

Soleil: Oh no!

Linda Melone: wasn't, wasn't being mean, she just would not have any filter. And she would say, you know, like there was one time someone put in a headline for her to evaluate and she said, okay, I'm going to assume this is placeholder copy. And so the woman typed in, you know, in the chat, she goes, I spent so many hours. Coming up with that, she goes, this coach was laughing. She's I'm sorry, you know, um, so when I would submit something to her, I'd make sure I would go over it [00:45:00] so many times. I never got yelled at, but. It was tough. So, but that's what really makes, you know, helps you improve. So work with somebody who really knows more than you, you

Soleil: Yeah,

Linda Melone: helpful

Soleil: yeah, and I think a piece of this and I just really want to emphasize this for business owners and entrepreneurs and marketers who listen to this podcast, 

Soleil: why is copywriting so important for a business?

Linda Melone: because it's what you're putting out there as your, as you, it's your brand, it's your messaging. It's what you stand for and you should stand for something. 

Linda Melone: Um, people will know you by your copy. And if it doesn't make sense to them, they'll, they're not going to go any further. It's like, you're It's like the entranceway well on your website, especially it's like that's all they're going to see and if it doesn't to them They're not going to want to work with you.

Linda Melone: Why would they know, it's like think about when you are shopping for something What are you looking for? Because they you know, [00:46:00] it's always like what's in it for me and people say, you know Oh, that's you know, that sounds like that's horrible. We're all like that. We're working. We're looking for something We want to know what's in it for me.

Linda Melone: Why am I going to pay all this money? You know If I don't know what you can do for me, so to really be, um, yeah, it's just important to just be clear and to let, it's letting people know what you do and how you can help them. Clarity is like number one with everything across the board, because I just don't see enough of that. Really being upfront.

Soleil: Well, this is all great. I do want to end off with a piece of just general advice that you'd like to leave with our audience based off of the work that you've done, the career that you've had, you working in copywriting.

Linda Melone: The main piece of advice is find out how you're different than your competitors make that the focal point of your messaging. 

Linda Melone: Because once you find that, like your value proposition, all of your copies should be based on that. When I find that for a client, I'm [00:47:00] always, I put that up in front of me and every, all the copy I write.

Linda Melone: Revolves around getting that message out there. So that's probably the most important thing because then you can do anything with it everything you write you come back to that Um, I mean, that's that's I just can't think of anything more important than that.

Soleil: Circle it, underline it, keep it in front of your computer.

Linda Melone: It can change over time I'll say that too, but at least when you're starting out, you know, like what do you what do you stand for?

Soleil: Well, that's great. Thank you so much, Linda. And I so appreciate you coming on today and talking about copywriting and giving this super valuable information to the people who are listening. I'd love to talk a little bit about your company, the copyworks, correct?

Linda Melone: Yes copyworks w o r x, uh dot com is um You I work with all different clients and different types of copy, but I do focus [00:48:00] on the health and wellness industry. Um, I mean, I do everything when I just said, I talked about how people find their value proposition. I do have a number of resources on there that are free. I have three freebies. One is, um, 21 marketing terms to never using your copy because it's marketing speak numbers, how to add humor to your copy. And the third is power words to Help increase conversions. And those are all free. I have a weekly newsletter that goes out every Thursday. That's also free.

Linda Melone: You can sign up for any of these things on the site. And I'm very active on LinkedIn as well. So find me there.

Soleil: Great. And a little bit about your podcast as well. You have a podcast.

Linda Melone: It's a B2B and the name is going to be changing. Currently it's B2B, uh, marketing and copywriting. And it's out there on Spotify, Apple, all the channels. And I, I publish once a week, usually on a Tuesday or Wednesday. I have an episode.

Soleil: Wonderful. Well, I would [00:49:00] highly recommend anybody who's listening to this episode and want to get into the specifics of copywriting to definitely go to the Copyworks with an X. Correct? Copyworks. Um, and also listen to Linda's podcast to learn a little bit more and start in Evolving your copywriting in the health and wellness industry.

Soleil: So thank you, Linda. I really appreciate your time with me today.

Linda Melone: Thanks so much for having me on soleil.

Soleil: You're so welcome. Bye. Bye.